tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5621016516937695074.post6153193755678338898..comments2024-03-16T06:00:04.833-04:00Comments on Sham's Grog 'n Blog: Old School RevisitedSham aka Davehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/14329116400656617173noreply@blogger.comBlogger4125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5621016516937695074.post-59802179803082976432008-05-31T18:40:00.000-04:002008-05-31T18:40:00.000-04:00"I just refuse to call shifting the player’s role ...<I>"I just refuse to call shifting the player’s role from playing to building as a “rise of the player”."</I><BR/><BR/>I see what you mean now. And yes, in that context it's hardly a 'rise' at all. <BR/><BR/><I>"...very few groups actually do play that way. Just as most of us played AD&D as if it were non-Advanced, lots of people play 3e in a much looser style than by-the-book."</I><BR/><BR/>Yep. I often lose sight of that, but the fact is we are all taking the rules and using them how our gaming group likes to.Sham aka Davehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14329116400656617173noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5621016516937695074.post-89613815144905562002008-05-31T18:22:00.000-04:002008-05-31T18:22:00.000-04:00Heh. I don’t think we disagree. I just refuse to c...Heh. I don’t think we disagree. I just refuse to call shifting the player’s role from playing to building as a “rise of the player”. (^_^)<BR/><BR/>Other points I think it’s worth keeping in mind...<BR/><BR/>I believe the 3e designers expected experienced players to put the DM back into the equation. “Taking the DM out of the equation” was meant to make the game better for novices. Which may have not been a good idea either, but the point is: They didn’t think that was the only or best way to play.<BR/><BR/>Secondly, in my experience, very few groups actually do play that way. Just as most of us played AD&D as if it were non-Advanced, lots of people play 3e in a much looser style than by-the-book.Roberthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16733274876782876659noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5621016516937695074.post-56972123888213428982008-05-31T13:34:00.000-04:002008-05-31T13:34:00.000-04:00"But this doesn’t mean a rise of the player. Becau...<I>"But this doesn’t mean a rise of the player. Because the player gets taken out of the equation as well. It’s all about building the PC instead of playing the PC."</I><BR/><BR/>That's a fair point, Robert. The act of building a character, crunching numbers and selecting options is the very rise in power fueled by the rules which I refer to. I think we agree that this evolution has detracted from actual game play.<BR/><BR/>Thanks for the comment! I agree with your thoughts here, but still maintain that deemphasis of the DM's role has led to emphasis on the players being more involved with the rules.<BR/><BR/>I probably wasn't clear enough in this post.<BR/><BR/>~ShamSham aka Davehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14329116400656617173noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5621016516937695074.post-10335727920639986682008-05-31T12:48:00.000-04:002008-05-31T12:48:00.000-04:00“These two changes have surely led to one distinct...“<B>These two changes have surely led to one distinct change, the rise of the player. The DM’s role has been deemphasized by the rules, and the rise of the player has seemingly relegated the DM to nothing more than a chaperone, there to ensure some sense of ‘fairness’. </B>”<BR/><BR/>“Taking the DM out of the equation”—as (I believe) Monte Cook put it—is, to me, removing the essence of what a role-playing game is. “The judge as living, creative rulebook” is—I think—the heart of what I mean when I use the term “role-playing game”.<BR/><BR/>But this doesn’t mean a rise of the player. Because the player gets taken out of the equation as well. It’s all about <I>building</I> the PC instead of <I>playing</I> the PC.<BR/><BR/>Once you’ve taken the DM and the players out of the equation... (O.O)<BR/><BR/>Now, I don’t think many people <I>actually</I> play that way. There’d be little point. I think, however, that these two trends and an unconscious idea among some gamers that they are the ideal direction are the things that make me feel more and more frustrated with a game.Roberthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16733274876782876659noreply@blogger.com